Tower Of Babel

12 Responses to “Dancehall Degenerating…”

1. mad bull Says:
   June 30th, 2007 at 6:28 am Re imbecile, it has been in use in the manner you describe above since about 1540.See dictionary.com. Another question would be when exactly did it fall from common use. Re dancehal degenerating, well, here is the thing: There are still a number of those “funny, catchy” tunes around! Telephone Ting by Kip Rich is an example, so is the one that he did with another guy where they imitate Tiger and Zebra. That one deh wicked, and yet I haven’t been able to find the video anywhere. Again, aside from funny, catchy songs, there are a lot of “conscious” music out there too. Plenty, plenty. Sean Paul did one “Never gonna be the same”. Still, he has said in interviews that when he sings “conscious” music, the sales don’t suggest that this is what people want to hear. I suppose that is what is causing what you are observing in dancehall music nowadays. Its like a cycle. Morally bankrupt people are demanding morally bankrupt lyrics, which lead the artistes to put that ish out. When they do, it creates an even higher demand for more morally bankrupt lyrics. Its not just the lyrics, its the dancing, the way the artistes are always at war, the hype over the cess…
2. The Mad Bull’s Blog, Version 3 » Blog Archive » Idle Chat Says:
   June 30th, 2007 at 7:13 am […] that the music is degenerating. Check out Seven’s thoughts on that very topic over by the Tower of Babel. Read what she has to say and tell her what you think on the […]
3. mad bull Says:
   June 30th, 2007 at 7:46 am Nuh General Degree sing “Granny”? I couldn’t find that video, so I put “Man Shortage” in for you, Seven…
4. Say Wah? Says:
   June 30th, 2007 at 9:11 am 1. Dance Hall has always been degenerate music and it is that very image that caused its tremendous popularity, especially amongst those with, shall we say, loose morals. The so called well-to-do have always avoided dance hall and its ilk for the very reasons that you are now describing. The dancing and wining of dance hall, if performed on the street, would constitute obscenity and be cause for arrest, even in Jamaica. I’ve noticed the issues you describe from early on and have been labeled a sellout or just old for my views. Are you getting old, now? 2. The impact of Dance Hall is clear to anyone willing to look at it without bias. Dance Hall(and other music) glorify and encourage moral depravity, sexual depravity, violence and more. It is a feedback loop wherein it reinforces itself in society and its ills worsen at a exponential rate. 3. The degeneration of our society and the breakdown of the family unit is a result of apathy, moral decay and disrespect. I do not believe that the breakdown of the family unit is causing the degeneration of our society. I feel that the degeneration of our society is causing the breakdown of the family unit, among other things. Something else that I have observed, that I find interesting is that, although we are becoming increasingly apathetic and just plain lazy regarding moral values and societal issues, it seems to me that we are at an all time high for fallacious righteous indignation and outrage. We, as a society, seem to be all too easily incensed and outraged by every little thing but, for more important issues like moral and societal values, it’s just too much trouble and we can’t be bothered. A strange and unfortunate dichotomy in my view. But, remember I’m a sellout and I’m “old”.
5. Mad Bull Says:
   June 30th, 2007 at 10:16 am @ Say wah? : The dancing and wining of dancehall music is performed in the streets of Jamaica with total impunity regularly - Check out Passa Passa and a number of other dances in the streets. The dancing and wining of soca music (which IMHO is just as “bad” as dancehall) is also performed with impunity both in Jamaica and here in Cayman. Nobody has been locked up for that.
6. Seven Says:
   June 30th, 2007 at 4:40 pm @ Mad Bull. I think the word Imbecile has become socially unacceptable to be used to define someone who is mentally handicapped… I personally think its as offensive to call a person with a mental problem an imbecile as it is to use the word Nigger! But that’s just my opinion. Also, I’m not saying that we should restrict dance hall to culture/conscious reggae - I just think the level of wit used in the music in the past that kept it as sexually suggestive has disappeared and it is now more common to have blatant, bordering on offensive at times lyrics/videos. I agree that there is lots of good dance hall still - LOTS of new artistes and new vibes to the genre - Sean paul is only one - Damian Marley, Stephen Marley and others are all bringing more new stuff to the table. And as i said, Hot Wuk is a good dance tune - but the video is offensive to say the least. Also, I wrote that post having been sitting and watching Hype TV for a while - and while there’s a lot of good music - there’s a lot of CRAP out there - and some are just either plain stupid or over-the-top with the gun talk/sex talk etc… But what do i know…
7. Seven Says:
   June 30th, 2007 at 5:06 pm @ Say Wha - No, no no - you misunderstood me - I actually LOVE dancehall - I haven’t gotten that old yet! Some of the songs I’m hyping as being more witty were about nothing but sex and whining and dirty-dancing etc! Also, I’m not ashamed to admit that i love much of the dancing to DanceHall music… I’m a dance hall girl - straight out!!! I agree with MB that the dancing to soca is just as bad (if not worse) It doesn’t help that i HATE soca… but carnival constitutes all levels of society parading and dancing in more vulgar manners than most dance hall, as far as I’m concerned… The thing is, I don’t think that Dance Hall always glorified violence and depravity - I think back to Yellow Man, Chakademus and Pliers, Stitchie, Papa San, the Admiral - Tiger - nuff of these artists sang about things that had nothing to do with depravity! The music has always been sexually stimulating, rhythmic and dance-oriented - but not always to the level of current depravity! I guess the music videos may be what is making me more shocked at the songs, than if I just heard the songs themselves… Frankly, you won’t get me to say dance hall feeds the ills in our society - I think when we broadcast videos that have women fanning their genitalia, we cross boundaries that make me uncomfortable - so maybe I should retitle the post - the impact the Music Video World has on dance hall!! Hmmm….. As for my opinion on the degeneration of society, well… lets agree to disagree. You see, I believe that the FAMILY is the foundation of SOCIETY. How we raise our children impacts the way society develops. If we had a society in which one couldn’t get married at the drop of a hat (I firmly believe it should be mandatory from a state level that pre-marital counselling be completed before one can obtain a marriage license - and that a clearly set period of counselling should also be mandatory before the granting of a divorce decree) I think people have started to take marriage as a joke - something you can do for fun, and if you don’t like it, Oh well, lets get out of it! That’s one… Then people raise children with no discipline, no boundaries and these kids grow up doing as they please - that’s two… Many go through seeing their parents get divorced (if they were ever married) and many of the parents carry on new relationships with no thought or concern about what exposure they are giving to the child. Don’t get me wrong, now - marriages can fail… and people should move on to try to find happiness and love in their lives. But if you have children, you really ought to conduct these relationships in a way that promotes their healthy respect for decorum, monogamous relations, etc… Its the breakdown of these things, and the level to which it has become socially acceptable for these things to carry on as they are now that, in my opinion, is causing a deepening degeneration of society as a whole! But again - that’s just my opinion… I know some won’t agree - and since I’m not yet President/Prime Minister, no-one has to give a hoot about what i think
8. mad bull Says:
   July 1st, 2007 at 12:06 pm @ Seven, I know it has become unacceptable to use that word in that way, but you did ask. Heh heh heh…
9. owen Says:
   July 1st, 2007 at 5:03 pm whenever the topic of dancehall comes up there is always a mention of some form of degredation, morals, family etc. DH is a like a hmmm…its hard to describe - its ever changing. The first time I heard “tek buddy gal” from the cubicle of a co-worker I thought that that record would NEVER get any air play. Turns out 6 months later it was the biggest thing in dancehall (after some editing and the like). After that it became evident to me that DH isn’t funny or witty or hype or popular or anything, it just is. Its like that girl you meet on the bus that you think was hot until you actually get to know her for the crazy person she is inside. Its a kitten that grows wild in the bush that comes down and rubs on you when its hungry and bite you if you try to pick it up. Its art. Art like only Jamaicans can produce. Strange, real, disgusting, ingenious, funny, offensive and illiterate. All in a big stew pot where random people just a throw stuff in. Today it might taste good, tomorrow it may burn your tongue.
10. mad bull Says:
    July 1st, 2007 at 5:32 pm Nice summing up, Owen… I agree with you too…
11. Seven Says:
    July 1st, 2007 at 8:17 pm Owen - are you a poet? A writer? If not, you should be… What a great way to describe the essence of dancehall… Whatever and wherever it goes - its still MY MUSIC - My CULTURE!!! It continues to fascinate and inspire me on one level or another… Intellectual (think any of the Marley kids) or raw (think Vegas, Buju, Shabba - or Ele, whoever..) I have all sides of that in my Jamaican (who i really am) self - introspective, rebellious, thought-provoking, revolutionary - along with raw, sexual, appreciation for good wit, whatever… I just get surprised, horrified at times by the level of debasement that is allowed in imagery in the videos!!! The words - best when used in a witty way - are one thing - and can mean all kinds of different things to all kinds of different people on all kinds of different levels! The imagery in the videos, however, is long gone from bad to beyond worse!!! That display on television - using women of adult and child-age - in the level of ’suggestive’ (a huge understatement) ways, is what I am really having a problem with!!! There was a time and place when certain things were deemed not appropriate for children - children were not permitted to watch certain types of films, or listen to certain types of music, etc - for God’s sake - Elvis was considered way too raw when he was big!!! Today, especially with satellite television and the internet, children are exposed to EVERYTHING imaginable and unimaginable!!!! Some people will tell you their kids ask about things they’ve never heard of… We need to draw a line somewhere… So again, I reiterate, perhaps my title needs to be changed, because the music itself is not so much my issue - its how the Jamaican culture and media allow it to be used and viewed that frighten me on many levels!!! But the internet frightens me too!!!! Where are we going in this world - what does the future hold for the future generations? As someone who has not yet had kids, i have to tell you - IT SCARES THE SHIT OUTTA ME!!!!! I don’t know that i want my children to grow up in this type of world… what do you think…
12. Seven Says:
    July 1st, 2007 at 8:40 pm PS. Bro - Ur right _ General Degree never did Granny - I think its Papa San - see if you can find it or tell me how to post it once i do - also Dwayne by red Rat - really funny!!!

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